Why One School Counselor Chose Schools Over Therapy Offices

What if the place where students spend most of their time held the key to unlocking their potential? Meet Kristina Renn, a first-year school counselor who almost became a clinical therapist but found her true calling in school counseling. Kristina joins us to share her practical approach to creating positive changes within the school environment. She highlights the profound impact school counselors can have, especially when support like parental involvement and mental health resources are lacking. With candid insights into dealing with isolation and high caseloads, Kristina's journey showcases the dedication and resilience needed to make a real difference in students' lives.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Hey there, school counselor, welcome back to the School for School Counselors podcast. I'm Steph Johnson, a full-time school counselor just like you, so happy and excited to be back here with you for another episode of the podcast. This week I had the privilege and distinction of talking with a new school counselor, christina Wren, who has some tremendous insights into the world of school counseling after her first year, and I think, whether you're an experienced school counselor, a new school counselor or one hoping and waiting for that first school counseling job, you're going to take away so much from Christina's insights, her suggestions and her heart for the work that she does with students each and every day. I am so proud to count myself amongst Christina's colleagues and I know that after hearing her speak, you are going to feel exactly the same way, exactly the same way. I started the podcast episode, as I do most of these. I asked Christina just to tell us a little bit about herself.

Speaker 2: 1:19

My name is Christina and I am a first-year counselor and I am a mama of four adult children two boys, two girls, 28, 24, 23, and almost 22. Very proud of them. My oldest is a police officer and a veteran of our military. My second son just got married and he's going to school and living the new married life. My first daughter is newly married and she's going to be a mama in September, so I am going to be a grandmother. I'm extremely we are so excited about that. And then my youngest is finishing her last year of college.

Speaker 2: 2:00

I love hearing people's stories and being able to help them, and that is how I discovered I wanted to get into the counseling world. It's very interesting journey of being a school counselor. I was actually working in a high school and I had been talking to a student who I thought therapy would be very beneficial and I actually did almost a whole year of being in a clinical counseling program. So I was a year in before I switched to becoming a school counselor and the student had said something to me like I would never do that, I would never go into a therapist's office, and I thought how interesting, because sort of the dialogue we were having is something that could possibly happen in a therapist's office. But then that's when I realized the real work that I wanted to do with students would definitely be more hands on and not in that sort of clinical setting.

Speaker 1: 3:00

I think Christina and I are very much of the same mindset that if we can catch students at school and get some things corrected, or on a better trajectory, let's do it and get some things corrected, or on a better trajectory, let's do it Now. We know if it's going to be longer-term services, we need to refer students out. But we also know that lots of students tend to get lost in the shuffle on the way out the door and sometimes they never make it to the therapist's office at all. There's wait lists, there can be insurance issues, there can be parental buy-in situations all kinds of things that impede their ability to get the support they need. It's a bit of a catch-22 in a way, where you feel darned if you do and darned if you don't. I was interested to hear more of Christina's thoughts on supporting students toward their best outcomes.

Speaker 2: 3:56

I have so many conversations with teachers and even admin about the theories of why a student is behaving a certain way and I especially, having that clinical counseling program background and also my inquisitive nature, I too love to think about what happens at home and I have my certain ideas, and I'll even go as far as to say judgment about parental figures or what happens before school or after school or on the weekends. But I remind these educators, we have them for eight hours a day, five days a week. We see them more than probably the majority of their caregivers do, so we have a tremendous opportunity to do work here. It does nobody any good the student or the teacher or the staff member to in a way wait until they get home or send an email home or a conversation home about well, here's what needs to happen.

Speaker 2: 5:07

No, we can do some of that work in the classroom, and yes, it has changed from the traditional teaching model. Yes, we have do some of that work in the classroom and, yes, it has changed from the traditional teaching model. Yes, we have to come in where caregivers what they're not doing or what caregivers aren't equipped doing. Yes, I truly believe the cell phone and social media does have a tremendous impact with what we're seeing and the devices and the electronics and the lack of communication, all of that, but those are things that we can start doing in our interactions with them. We can be modeling all of that and that is something where we can truly make a difference in the school environment.

Speaker 1: 5:49

I love this so much. Environment, I love this so much. As you hear Christina talk, you can hear her heart shine through and her drive and compassion to realize amazing outcomes for her students. In our pre-podcast communication, christina mentioned the feeling of working in a virtual silo as a school counselor, having to figure things out independently and really kind of feeling like she's on her own in a situation where she also has a pretty high caseload.

Speaker 2: 6:23

I have 700 students. I work at a TK through eight school and what makes it even a little bit more challenging is because I am first year. I am it, and not only first year, and this is something that I always struggle with admitting. I am on my intern credential. I actually still have eight weeks in my master's program, which I'm super excited about. I have two more classes left and my site supervisor is not directly at my site.

Speaker 2: 6:57

So yeah, when I say alone alone, I feel alone alone and I encounter the newness of my job and I'm sure first year, maybe even first, second, third year counselors out there will understand like every day is like a first day on the job and it's oh, we've never encountered this. Oh, there's a third grader screaming bloody murder outside and I'm trying to help another student and we're both distracted. How is somebody going to get that student? I haven't heard anything on the radio. What do I do? I don't know. It's wild, and I have grown so much in this role, more than I've ever thought. I even sometimes think about what did I get myself into, knowing that I had zero experience, but it's something that I've learned about myself, that I actually do better the less I know and I tend to jump in to experiences. Let's just do it and we'll figure it out as we go. But the figuring out has been the hardest job besides being a parent that I've ever done, oh my stars.

Speaker 1: 8:07

truer words have never been spoken that, as counselors, every day is like our first day on the job and that lasts for a while. My friends and I'm not entirely sure it ever completely goes away. There are always so many things happening, so many things to attend to at once, and the good news about our jobs in school counseling is that they are never boring. With Christina working to educate herself in the process, I asked her if there were any things that she wished she had been trained on in her graduate program to better prepare her for her school counseling life.

Speaker 2: 8:51

I love this question. I wish we would have had a class that did case studies, taking a elementary student, a middle school student and a high school student, because, as we know, those are three different ways of counseling students. And taking a case for eight weeks and what does that look like? Here's sort of what they present with and how would you navigate that? How would you navigate if they needed an SST, a 504, an IEP, a behavior plan, conversations with the teacher, conversations with the parents, and go through each type of student, so you kind of really get more of an idea of what that looked like, instead of these theories of small group. We did a small group counseling class, but it was the high school student, which is very different than dealing with first graders. So that is what I wish if we could change is do some more real world work and sort of going through that.

Speaker 1: 9:58

Christina has a great point. It is very rare to have the opportunity to discuss any sort of case study at length, whether that's in your graduate program or beyond your master's program. We really don't get a lot of opportunities to dive in deep to the what-ifs and what-could-we's and how-do-we's in those situations. It's the cornerstone of what our School for School Counselors Mastermind is actually built on. We go through case studies each and every week specifically for this reason to provide our school counselors with more fluency, deeper understandings and better connections in different kinds of situations and better connections in different kinds of situations. I asked Christina also if there were things that she'd actually been able to take part in that she feel improved her school counseling knowledge and expertise, her school counseling knowledge and confidence.

Speaker 2: 10:59

It isn't really until I attended our state association for school counselors conference that I really felt empowered to be like wait, this is my program, this is my program and these are things that I can implement, because prior to that I really was like, well, the staff, our administration, has been doing this a lot longer than me, they must know. And so just sort of like if we're doing like a Tour de France and you have the lead biker and I'm just sort of in there just following along wherever they go, that's what I sort of felt, and it wasn't really until I was with, like my people where I was like, no, this is not going to be how it's going to go. Here is what I believe our students need, and from that I've really been able to pare down. We need more tier one interventions, and that's been something I've been talking about and champion and where really the counseling program is going to focus next year is really because we have too many tier two, tier three call and between admin and myself we're just putting out fires every day and I'm exhausted, they're exhausted, we can't really dig in and do the work when that's all that we're doing and we really can back it up, or go further upstream, as we like to say, and do that tier one work.

Speaker 2: 12:23

So it really was from that conference learning and being able to really say oh Christina, you've got this. I need to speak up. Who else understands? Not administration, they are very, very, very solution and task oriented to the nth degree, which they need to be because otherwise things don't ever get done. To the nth degree, which they need to be because otherwise things don't ever get done. Their job is sort of to push people and to make things happen. My job is to listen and to make things happen in a school counselor role.

Speaker 1: 12:58

How many of us would have given our eye teeth in middle school or high school to have that one person that made us feel like we were valued and seen and heard. Unfortunately, for so many people, that was never their reality. But here we are with Christina showing up on campus ready to be that person for her students, and we know that the most fundamental catalyst of change is relationship. It doesn't matter how good your curriculums are, how carefully crafted your interventions are, if you don't have the right relationship with the student, it's probably not going to matter that much. So I love that. That's what's sustaining Christina in her work. Now, as she has her eye on Tier 2 and Tier 3 relationships with students, she's also taking a hard look at Tier 1 interventions on her campus.

Speaker 2: 14:03

So I asked her what is she looking at and thinking about right now? Part of the tier one is not only tier one, sel and helping that, it's empowering the teachers to do some of this work. You do not need admin or a counselor to come to your classroom to talk to a student about their behavior in your classroom, unless you've had multiple conversations and that student is outright being defiant. That's a different conversation. But the fact that you've never had the conversation with the student that no, no, no, no, no, no, we're, we're, we're no, that's. My hope is that those sort of things will be pushed back and giving the teachers the empowerment and the tools to have those sort of conversations. So we're not doing that. For instance, a kindergarten in the cafeteria was putting French fries where French fries shouldn't be and I get a call and I go in there and I just say we're going to be done with these french fries. Ok, kiddo, ok, I don't like them anyway, put them in the garbage. The aide could have done that. That was not a call for admin or a counselor. So it's really sort of empowering not only the teachers but the aides to be like you can do that, especially when it's a high flyer student. If it was a random student and that behavior was way out of the norm for that student, then maybe it's a conversation with the counselor afterward, of like maybe you need to like check in the student, but not when it's more common with a certain student. So it's things like that too that I'm really hoping we can at least sort of eliminate some of those radio calls.

Speaker 2: 15:38

I sometimes just get so bogged down with the putting out fires that the smoke cloud doesn't really clear. That's pretty much the mode. I'm in all day and I'm exhausted by the end of the week. Like this week felt like it had 20 days in it. The way that things were going. It's been rough and I don't anticipate it getting any easier until we get to the end of this month.

Speaker 1: 16:01

I love that I was trying so hard not to laugh out loud when Christina was talking because, oh my goodness, it's so true. So many folks on our campuses are using us as their classroom management or cafeteria management plan. I suppose it's just something that goes with the territory, but as Christina really takes a critical look at and prioritizes her tier one interventions, I think she's right. I think she's going to turn the tide of all of these random willy-nilly calls. As we wrapped up our conversation, I asked Christina what else she wanted to share with her friends and colleagues listening to the podcast. What did she want you to know as our time together comes to a close?

Speaker 2: 16:55

I want to share that, as a school counselor whether or not you are first year, five year or 10 year it is so important to be around your people and to find those people, because nobody will understand your job like those that do it, and to get those people early and to be diligent about connecting with them. I know we're all tired and I struggle with even having the energy to do that, but I can see how important it is to be able to share and to be amongst those that really truly get what you live day in and day out. So that would be a piece of advice that I would give to everybody, no matter where you find yourself in your counselor journey, and I say it out loud and I speak it into the universe so that I will follow my own advice. Isn't that sometimes what we do? We project out here what we know we sometimes need the most, and so that is also to hold myself accountable and that I need those relationships too.

Speaker 2: 18:01

And I'm actually going to do a plug for School, for School Counselors, because if you can't find your people, your people can be here, and they can be here virtually, and so that's super important. And so, actually, when I first started my journey, I was on the weekly calls because I was like I am struggling. Now it's a great community, and so I love what you're doing and so I encourage people.

Speaker 2: 18:23

If you can't find your people, there is your people available online.

Speaker 1: 18:34

As school counselors, we are in the business of relationship building. We know how important it is, we know that at times we're going to have to lean on each other and we know that we cannot afford to be islands unto ourselves. It's not good for the students we serve, for us as developing professionals or for our own sense of well-being and mental health. You know, at this point of the podcast I usually remind you about the availability of the School for School Counselors Mastermind, but I'm not going to do that this week because Christina already put it way more eloquently than I think I ever have. So just know, if you're interested, you can hop over to schoolforschoolcounselorscom slash mastermind, check out the community, check out the camaraderie and the support and consultation that we have going on over there and, hey, maybe you'll drop in on the day when Christina happens to drop by as well. That'd be really, really cool Y'all.

Speaker 1: 19:39

I had such a great time talking with Christina on the podcast episode. We covered a lot of ground from her own trajectory and experiences in getting into school counseling in the first place, providing student services and the catch-22 of needing therapy but not being able to access therapy, feeling like we're working in a silo sometimes, when we don't have the kind of support and consultation that we truly need in our work, the gaps that we perhaps need to address in our own professional development, and the confidence that comes from consulting and collaborating with our peers in real time. What I want you to take away from this conversation most is the power of relationship, the power of empowering one another and of finding your people when you need them. Christina is a doll. I am so honored and humbled to have been able to talk with her on this episode of the podcast, and I hope that you got as much inspiration and motivation out of this conversation as I did. If you did, we're going to call that a win. Hey, you know what's coming up next week it's going to be the 100th episode of the School for School Counselors podcast.

Speaker 1: 21:05

If you had told me two years ago that we were going to be hitting our 100th episode and that people were still listening to the podcast because, I'll be honest, I had some hesitation about that when we first got this going that folks are still listening and that we're growing like nobody's business, I would have thought that you were completely off your rocker. But here we are. We are really making huge impacts for so many of our colleagues and friends in the school counseling world, and I have you to thank for that, colleagues and friends in the school counseling world, and I have you to thank for that. As a listener of the podcast, as a supporter of our mission here in School for School Counselors, I can't thank you enough. And so I'm hoping, if you have just a few minutes at the end of this podcast episode, could you go into your podcast player, pretty please, and give us a rating podcast player, pretty please, and give us a rating.

Speaker 1: 21:59

I love getting five golden, shiny stars as a rating. It makes my day. Or, if you're an Apple podcast, could you leave us a written review? That would mean the world to me and my team as we prepare to celebrate our 100th podcast episode Totally mind-blowing, and we have you to thank for that. All right, I'll be back soon with another episode of the School for School Counselors podcast. In the meantime, I hope you have the best week. Y'all, take care and join me soon for our 100th episode celebration.