School for School Counselors Podcast
Ready to cut through the noise and get to the heart of what it really means to be a school counselor today? Welcome to The School for School Counselors Podcast! Let’s be honest: this job is rewarding, but it’s also one of the toughest, most misunderstood roles out there. That’s why I'm here, offering real talk and evidence-based insights about the everyday highs and lows of the work we love.
Think of this podcast as your go-to conversation with a trusted friend who just gets it. I'm here to deliver honest insights, share some laughs, and get real about the challenges that come with being a school counselor.
Feeling overwhelmed? Frustrated? Eager to make a significant impact? I'm here to provide practical advice, smart strategies, and plenty of support.
Each week, we’ll tackle topics ranging from building a strong counseling program to effectively using data—and we won’t shy away from addressing the tough issues. If you’re ready to stop chasing impossible standards and want to connect with others who truly understand the complexities of your role, you’re in the right place.
So find a quiet spot, get comfortable, and get ready to feel more confident and supported than you’ve ever felt before.
For more resources and to stay connected, visit schoolforschoolcounselors.com.
School for School Counselors Podcast
Screaming Goats and Sand Trays: Unique Stories of Real-World School Counseling
In the 100th episode of the School for School Counselors podcast, we are all about the colorful and often unexpected world of school counseling with stories from school counselors who are in the trenches every day. One counselor from Kentucky shares about her handmade wooden sand tray, a favorite among her students for its soothing qualities. Another from Georgia uses a screaming goat toy to break the tension and get a laugh out of students during stressful moments. These personal touches not only make their offices a little more welcoming but also offer unique ways to connect with students.
As the conversation unfolds, more counselors chime in with their favorite tools and methods. From a tabletop punching bag in an elementary school to a life-sized cutout of The Rock used for student greetings and school events in Southern California, each story highlights the creativity and personalization that counselors bring to their roles. These stories underline the episode's core message: school counseling isn't just about following guidelines and filling out forms—it's about the real, meaningful interactions that help students navigate their school days.
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Our goal at School for School Counselors is to help school counselors stay on fire, make huge impacts for students, and catalyze change for our roles through grassroots advocacy and collaboration. Listen to get to know more about us and our mission, feel empowered and inspired, and set yourself up for success in the wonderful world of school counseling.
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Hey there, school counselor, welcome back to the School for School Counselors podcast. I'm your host, steph Johnson, glad to be back here with you for the 100th episode of the School for School Counselors podcast, and this is huge. You'll hear me say this again later in the podcast episode, but I never in my wildest dreams imagined we would still be going and going this strong, this far into the podcast and I have you to thank for that, our listeners in the podcast world and I just can't wait to jump into this very special episode. For this 100th episode, I invited members of my School for School Counselors mastermind to come cuss and discuss all things school counseling. We are going to dive into some really hot topic issues. No holds barred, nothing held back, and you're going to hear really some great insights, some great perspectives on our work and we'll call out a few of the elephants in the room, a few of the things that nobody else really seems to be talking about but we think are really big deal. So, without further ado, I'm going to step back and jump into the recording that I made with my masterminders just a few short days ago. I hope you enjoy.
Speaker 1:All right, I got my mastermind friends here with me in the Zoom room and we are here to celebrate the 100th episode of the School for School Counselors podcast, which is crazy, because I never, ever, thought we would be at 100 episodes. In the back of my mind, I always just thought it might be maybe 10 or 20, and then it would peter out. But here we are going strong, and I think it's because of the amazing people that are in the Zoom room with me right now and all the other masterminders that we have in our community, as well as all of you in our Facebook group. It's just amazing what happens when we come together, when we collaborate, when we consult and when we put our brains together for the best outcomes for our students. So I'm super excited about this.
Speaker 1:I want to see what's on our masterminders' minds this morning as we jump into summer and getting ready for the next school year. So I'm going to let my folks introduce themselves. You guys, why don't you introduce yourselves to everybody? Tell us a little bit about what you do and what is your favorite item in your school counseling office.
Speaker 3:Hey, I'm Brooke. I'm a Kentucky school counselor at a K-8 Catholic school. Absolutely love it. My favorite item in my school counseling office is probably a handmade counseling office is probably a handmade wooden sand tray and toolkit that my dad made me when I got my job. That's probably my favorite. The kids love it. I put kinetic sand in there and they can dig and come through it to their heart's content. I love that.
Speaker 4:I'm Susan. I am a pre-K through fifth grade school counselor in Georgia and my favorite item that I have is a screaming goat. It is a little toy you press when you're upset and you're mad and it breaks the tension. Sometimes with kids it makes them laugh when they're so angry and upset. It's just so much fun to use.
Speaker 1:Hi, I'm Diane. I'm a elementary school counselor, serving grades K through five, and my favorite item is a tabletop punching bag that the kids all love to punch, especially when they're feeling angry or frustrated. And then, when the teachers find out about it, they'll usually say, hey, can so-and-so come to your office and punch your punching bag for a few minutes? So it's very popular.
Speaker 2:This is Latonya in Virginia. I am nine through 12 counselor. Absolutely love it. Go back for the crazy every day. My favorite thing in my office is probably my sofa. I have a blanket and pillows because just sometimes everybody may just need that place instead of sitting in a chair, just to come and relax and digress. I've actually had some kids take naps on it because they just couldn't function. So that would have to say that's my favorite thing in my office.
Speaker 4:My name is Crystal and I am a counselor in Texas, and this will be my first year as a school counselor on an all pre-K campus and I'm looking forward to listen and learn about all the great items that are in your offices qualified behavioral health provider for a mental health clinic in my area and I'm very new to it.
Speaker 1:I will be working with primary level students and probably doing a lot of play therapy and I think I would see my favorite item in my office as probably being puppet that's mine. Good morning everybody. My name is Noemi Alvarado. I am an elementary school counselor in Southern California and my favorite item is I have a huge cutout of the Rock and he's my favorite because we have dressed him up, you know, in a graduation gown and put him outside during college career days. We put signs on him welcoming students. Good morning.
Speaker 1:We sit him right outside of our office and kids will walk through and they'll say hi to the Rock. They love it. Adults have come and taken selfies. Staff from the district have come and taken selfies with the Rock. We've taken him out to like our kids games and he's part of the audience. So kids absolutely love it. Drives them crazy. When he's not outside of our office they're always asking like where's the rock? Where did he go? So that's my favorite item in my school counseling office.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious. I could just imagine you guys carrying that thing around campus or loaded up in the car to take it places. That cracks me up For sure. It's hilarious. People think it's funny, the kids think it's funny. I'm thinking I'm going to have to purchase a new one, because he's been there for quite a while now, for a couple of years, and he's looking a little folded up and defeated lately. But I'm trying to figure out what cut out of what random famous person I should purchase next. This one was a gift. I just took it to work and it was a hit. That's so funny. It just goes to show too.
Speaker 1:You know, as we're talking about this, no one ever expected you to say I have a life-size cutout of the rock and that's my favorite school counseling tool. You don't see that make the lists or be posted in the articles, but that's true to your campus and it's so fun to hear that kind of stuff. I think that's what I love about our group so much is that we hear and see the real stuff right, Not just the generic, whatever everybody talks about all the time, kind of things, but we're talking about real world school counseling and I just think that's amazing and the opportunity to share. I'm thinking right now what kind of cutout do I need to get for my campus. I'm already thinking about this for the fall.
Speaker 1:So we talk a lot, y'all, about real world school counseling models versus kind of the ideal model of a school counseling program and how frustrating that can be for school counselors along the way, because we're trained to try to build these perfect world ASCA aligned programs and then we get into the reality on our campuses and we find out it's not as easy as we thought it was going to be and sometimes that feels really frustrating. But I'm interested to know, as you see it, can you rate the state of school counseling according to the ASCA national model? So what I mean by that is how well as a whole is our industry implementing the national model, or how realistic do you feel it is? One through 10, just shout out a number at me Four five, four, three.
Speaker 1:Four, four, five, five, four, three, probably a four. All right, Halfway to maybe not quite halfway is what I'm hearing, and definitely I think I feel the same way. I think that the national model is a great goal to strive for, but I do think that there are some pitfalls along the way. I think it's very difficult to master and I think that we have a lot of school counseling programs that have not been given the foundations to be able to meet what is being expected of school counselors. So my next question is a little bit more personal, but have you ever had a time when you felt like dang? If this is what it's supposed to be, I don't know if I can do it.
Speaker 2:This is Latonya. I would have to say yes, and it was not until I heard one of your podcasts where the elephant just lifted off of my chest to say OK. So I'm not the only one thinking that I'm going crazy, that this is unattainable. So it's been able to change my mindset to do what I need to do, and that is going to look different to every campus and every program and even though we're striving for the ideal, to give ourselves grace, to say you're doing your best, as long as you know you're implementing the things that need to be implemented and staying at the core and moral and everything. Keep on going.
Speaker 5:This is Myra and I would have to agree with LaTanya 100%.
Speaker 1:This is my third year at an elementary site and I'm learning as I go, but I felt overwhelmed my first year, thinking that I have to do all these things and there was no way I could do all those things and service the needs of my campus. There was no way what my students needed was not ASCA aligned. So I agree 100% with LaTanya.
Speaker 4:I'm right there with you, latanya and Myra, and I would have to say too, you said this was your third year. I'm in my 20-something year. And I've told Steph before I wished so badly I'd had this validation and had this viewpoint of all of ASCA a long time ago, to be able to give myself that grace a long time ago and be okay with it. So yes, thank you, Stephanie.
Speaker 3:So I think I'm in a pretty unique position. I did my internship in a public school here and I could tell from my internship which probably had a pretty similar caseload to most of you all pretty similar caseload to most of you all I think we had eight to 900 kids, well over the ASCA recommended 250 to one ratio and I could tell when my mentor was busting his behind for months doing testing and 504 stuff, I was like I don't know how he's doing as well as he was in serving the kids when he's expected and all the counselors in the district were expected to do all of these extra things that were not ASCA aligned duties. Now in my job, which is probably about as close as you can get to the ideal population and caseload, size and job expectations, to provide an ASCA-aligned program, it's still hard. It is still hard with 200 kids and no testing duties to make sure you're able to carve out the time to meet all three domains for every single child across all grade levels, every single day, with parental and community and district input and all of the things. It is so overwhelming, even as a counselor coming from an ideal school.
Speaker 3:In my opinion. I love it. I wouldn't go anywhere else. It's still hard to feel like you can't live up to that. So I would totally agree with all of you at.
Speaker 1:We've been very lucky that our district did lower our ratios to 250 to one the last couple of years. And I completely agree with Brooke. I'm one of three counselors on my campus and we applied for RAMP a couple of years ago and we did not get it. I remember how difficult it was to not necessarily implement the program. We were doing all the things that we needed to get done. The amount of paperwork you have to complete was insane. We were working over the summer, we were the new year that came, we were working on paperwork for the previous year and the paperwork for that year, and so there was a lot of just overlap. It was a lot to do and then when we didn't get it, we felt extremely defeated and it was very difficult to go forward from there. That school year it was really hard and I remember listening to one of the podcasts for School for School Counselors and you talked about how, just because we don't have that ramp recognition doesn't mean we don't have a great program, and that just really resonated with me. It really helped me move forward because I knew that we were doing a great job and my co-counselors knew that we were doing a great job, but we didn't feel like it because we didn't get that RAP recognition and quite a few of our schools in the district did get it that year. And so we're coming in as a new program and we're excited, we wanna do all these things. We feel like, oh gosh, rap, that's what we have to do. And it really took a toll, I think, on our mental health and even just on our lives outside of work, where we weren't really focusing our attention on our families and getting that time that we needed to relax and rest to be able to be fully functional at an elementary school campus. We always credit our significant others and our families for really standing behind us through that process, because we know that it took so much from us. And, with that said, we are actually planning on submitting our RAMP application this coming October.
Speaker 1:But we are in a whole different mindset. I would say we have, we are doing our paperwork, we've done it throughout the year and all three of us are like what, when we get there starting the school year, if that is just something that's taking too much attention from our students at that moment, from our families, then it's just something that it's not worth it for us to do at that moment and we're okay not doing it and putting that aside and moving forward with our new school year and making sure that we're 100% there for our students and that we're there for our families, that we are there for ourselves as well. I love that you bring up a really interesting point, which is you strive and you work and you toil away and you're trying to build these programs. I know on my end at my campus, from time to time I'll get super motivated and sit down and think maybe we can make this work.
Speaker 1:And just the sheer amount of time that it takes to walk through all the documentation, all the paperwork, to figure out what would be required, and I always have the thought in the back of my mind I could be out with kids right now, I could be serving students right now, instead of shuffling through this paperwork in place.
Speaker 1:And this is definitely not meant to dog any programs or say we shouldn't be striving towards those goals, but there is a piece of that I think that you've touched on, which is it's really difficult to get all of those things done, get all those ducks in a row and get them out the door, while still trying to keep things running on your campus and I think that's true for school counselors in general too with these national models, do you guys remember the Wile E Coyote cartoons? And he would inevitably run off the cliff and he was trying to climb the air right to get back up to the top and it would never, ever worked. I think a lot of times that's how we feel in our programs. We feel like we're just trying to climb the air to get where we're supposed to be and we know deep down in our hearts we're not going to get there. So what do you do to take care of yourselves in the meantime? How do you maintain your perspective in your day-to-day work? How do you take care of yourself during?
Speaker 3:your workday. I think being intentional about finding a community that gets it is very important. A lot of school counselors are the sole mental health professional in their building. I am the sole mental health professional in my building and, while it would appear looking from the outside in that it would make me feel lonely, because I am intentional about building relationships with other counselors in our district, with other in our diocese, other counselors here in the Mastermind, it's not lonely anymore. It might have started out that way, but just having people who understand and who can encourage you when you are having those feelings is more beneficial than just about I don't want to say all forms of self-care, but it is probably one of the highest for me Just being able to bounce ideas back and forth off of people who have been there and have either failed at it or succeeded at it, and you can learn from what they did.
Speaker 1:And we're very thankful for our consultation and chats, because I know a lot of times if I'm struggling with something, I'll be like, oh good, I can bring this up on Tuesday and get ideas from all of you, because I am also the only counselor in my building and a lot of times, even though my past field supervisor is available, he's not available because he's always so busy, and so if I'm knowing that I have a place to come where we can vent and talk through things is really, really helpful At least it is for me.
Speaker 4:One thing, just on a practical day to day, when I'm feeling discouraged, that I'm trying to do. I don't always do it, but I can be pretty hard on myself and focused on what I need to get done or haven't gotten done and all of that. It's that I'm trying to just take three to five minutes to write down what I did do today and what I did accomplish today. I did talk with that student and help them through something. I did talk with that parent.
Speaker 4:I did talk to that teacher, so I did do a lot and give myself a little credit encouragement for that, and then the next things will come and it'll be okay and that helps me to just to not stay as overwhelmed as I typically can be stay as overwhelmed as I typically can be.
Speaker 5:I know for me one thing that I do, similar to Susan, is I have a happy file so any like notes of encouragement from teachers or from staff or from kiddos or parents. I save those and I put those in a file folder and so on those days that feel really tough or feel really overwhelming or I'm like what am I doing today, I open that file folder and it helps me remember the reasons why I do what I do and why I come into this building day in and day out is because of impacting these lives. So it really helps me refocus and remember why I do what I do.
Speaker 1:Just to add to what Shanice says, one of our fifth grade teachers actually has students at the end of the year, write letters to teachers and I always look forward to that day because a lot of them choose me to write to and of course I also keep them and it's always so wonderful to read and for them to say thank you and all that. So one thing I like to do, one of my favorite things, is just talking to students randomly being out there. When they're out there during lunch, during recess, in the mornings, after school, when I'm feeling very defeated or I'm feeling just in a funk, I will force myself to go out there with them and just to talk to them and greet them. And sometimes I'm very honest with my students, I'm very transparent and I'll say you know what guys? Miss Noemi is having not a great day. I'm being a little grouchy today. Whatever, and they'll, they always try to make you laugh. They're just like they'll be like, Miss Noemi, did you have your coffee this morning? Did you have lunch? Did you sleep? And so it just. They crack me up because it just it me. It reminds me that they listen when I talk to them. They do listen, they're there and they want me to be good, just like I want them to be good. So forcing myself to go out there during recess and talking to them, and it just cracks me up and it reminds me that I love my job and I love my kids and I love being out there with them that's what it's all about, right? That's why we show up every day is because of kiddos. We sure don't show up for the grownups most of the time and we sure don't show up for the paperwork and the responsibilities and all the calendars and the things right.
Speaker 1:Susan was talking earlier about writing things down at the end of the day that you've accomplished, and it really caught my attention because I thought that is a form of data-driven school counseling. It may not feel like it often, but that is definitely a form of data-driven school counseling, which is a huge buzz phrase around the school counseling world right now. We talk about it a lot over here. We have our data cohort running where we're looking at how we're capturing this information, what we're doing with it, how we're sustaining our practice, and so I just am interested to know if anybody wants to share some of their experience with trying to capture data in your school counseling program. What kinds of information are you trying to capture? What are some things that you've tried or what is some validation or maybe some struggles you've had in your data-driven school counseling journey?
Speaker 3:Motivation. It's really hard to stay motivated to actually put in my data every day. It's very difficult and sometimes it doesn't get done, and that's real right, that's real, that's the real way of the school counseling life.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think being worried about perfection with it and if I miss or if I forget or I don't write something down oh no, I've messed it all up, I don't need to continue, or what do I do? And that's a big problem with me, and maybe a little that has a little ADHD in there with it of trying to keep up with it as part for me to concentrate on it. Make it a priority.
Speaker 6:I would definitely agree with Brooke and Susan. I like to. I'm pretty good at getting the data together. I'm pretty good at putting it in each day and it's not each day like every other day but then when it comes down to make the pie graphs or the bar charts, or this is what they knew at the beginning of the small group and this is what they knew at the end of the small group, and this is where they increased and this is where maybe we need to go back and refocus a little bit. I get stuck on the perfection because a lot of the admin don't really say exactly what they want and I'll ask what they want and I don't think they know what they want in terms of final product.
Speaker 1:I think that's a trend I'm seeing right now in the education world at large, and we were laughing, I think, in our mastermind group a week or so ago. Somebody said I've been in education for 30 years and I feel like this whole data-driven thing is just the flavor of the month and it's going to come and it's going to go. And we were serving kiddos just fine before we all started. Talking about data all the time Doesn't mean we don't need it, but we seem to be hyper-vigilant about it. And, katie, what you were just saying about, we're providing the information, but oftentimes our administrators don't even know what data they want to see. They just think they need data because that's what they talk about all day long. Is anybody else getting that feeling in your school counseling work, where we're constantly talking about capture the data and then you're like, okay, so who wants this?
Speaker 2:So we had the mental health grant and we were able to get the past survey. There's one of those ones that you have to do at the beginning, the middle and the end to gauge it. So we're sitting there, okay. So what does this mean? We're doing it, but like, how are we supposed to take this and put it back into our program? And nobody had an answer. I'm laughing so hard because we even forgot to do it at the end of the year because nobody knows what we're supposed to do with it. So it's just okay, we got it. We got the money to do this at the end of the year because nobody knows what we're supposed to do with it. So it's just OK, we got it. We got the money to do this program, but what for? So it doesn't help.
Speaker 2:When my school didn't have nobody did data in the surrounding counties, I'm like I have nobody to talk to, but outside people, how am I supposed to do this? What am I supposed to do with it? I feel like I'm doing the data and I'm keeping it. Supposed to do this. What am I supposed to do with it? I feel like I'm doing the data and I'm keeping it, but not how the norm says it should look and be in bar graphs and charts and all this good stuff. So I'm just I'm laughing because I just don't know. I'm doing something, but I don't know if I'm doing it according to the data.
Speaker 3:I feel like my admin, specifically, is really good about. I don't think she wants any specific data from me. She just wants to know that if I make a decision, I can back it up with why I made that decision. So if I make a decision about the counseling program and she asks why, she just expects that I have some type of proof to back up or knowledge to say this is why I chose to do what I did, and then she's okay, cool, awesome, we'll support you 100%.
Speaker 1:I don't know why, but every year at the end of the year, when we've collected all our data and we've put it into graphs and all that good stuff, I look at our numbers and I always feel like, oh, that's it. I swear I did so much more. I swear I saw so many more students. I swear I did so much more. I swear I saw so many more students. I swear I did so many more small groups. And then I always have this feeling of dread. Do I want to show this to the teachers? What are they going to think? Are they going to understand? Does this really give people what a day of a school counselor looks like? Because it doesn't show my emergencies, my crises, it doesn't really break it down, it just says, oh, you saw so many one-on-ones, you did so many small groups, you did so many classroom presentations.
Speaker 1:And I always get this small sense of dread of did I even do well this year when I look at those numbers, because I always feel like, oh, my gosh, that's not enough, I should have done more.
Speaker 1:I think that's a really astute observation and I think you bring up a really good point, because if you're presenting data with no frame of reference to people who don't do what you do. Sometimes it can feel like that, and I know what you're talking about because I've been there, I have 100% been there, with my data as well. And I think, man, if I present these numbers to my staff and they see, oh, you only did X number of counseling sessions this year, what were you doing the rest of the time? Not understanding what it took to make those things happen, the duration of some of those counseling sessions, the content of some of them that needed to be processed by me afterwards, just the chasing students down, trying to find them, to get them in the office, those kinds of things. Unless you do this kind of work, it's really difficult to understand what those numbers actually mean. And so do you think that maybe we've taken the data initiative a little bit too far in school counseling, or do you think we're headed in the right direction?
Speaker 3:I think we can stop where we are. I don't think we need to go any further. If we stop where we are, maybe dial it back a teensy bit.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't go any further, though I think districts are more concerned with how many assessments are you doing? How many students are in crisis? I think a lot of districts use data to advocate for us. As far as, like I know, in North Carolina we were just recently able to take off testing and now they're looking to get us out of the rotation and get us off 504s. I think some of it is very important so that we can get things taken off our plate that don't belong there. But I think, like my teachers are less interested in what I do all day, and that's just a feeling I get, like I don't think they are interested in looking at yet another email.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it feels like we're collecting it just for the sake of collecting it, just to say we have it. But I will say too, we've had a success story in the mastermind here the last couple of weeks with one of our members who collected some data and was able to really stand her ground on an issue on her campus where she would not have been able to do it as well otherwise. So there are some benefits. For sure I'm going to keep collecting my use of time data. For sure I think many of you are as well. Our data cohort is going to be continuing this next year and I think we're still going to be heading down that road. But, like most of you, I think you know we've got to be mindful of how we're using it and not just willy nilly let's grab all the stats all the time for all the reasons and not know what to do with it after that.
Speaker 1:Speaking of not knowing what to do with things, I want to open a hotbed issue.
Speaker 1:Okay, in our education world right now and in school counseling, there tends to be two kinds of camps of school counselors.
Speaker 1:There tend to be the school counselors that see themselves as very much teachers of social-emotional skills, who are very invested in doing lessons in small groups and the instructional side of counseling. And then we have the camp on the other side of the river that is more invested in mental health intervention, not necessarily didactic lessons, not necessarily standing up and teaching concepts and skills, but really getting in there with students doing a lot more individual counseling, doing a lot more individual counseling, doing a lot more large-scale intervention kinds of programs and things like that on their campuses. And so I'm curious to know, because I don't think either one is right or wrong, I think there are two different approaches to school counseling, and I think that some people manage to do both of them very well within the same program, but then most of us, I think, tend toward one or the other. So which one do you identify with more? Do you identify more with the social-emotional teacher or do you identify more as a mental health interventionist?
Speaker 3:Our district. I was pleasantly surprised when I started. They focus very heavily on the mental health side. So our counseling director is also a mental health professional, a mental health medical professional Actually she's wonderful and they are very adamant at the diocese level and they push out to the principal that the school counselors are the mental health professionals on campus and we are the people that they should go to with mental health concerns about children. So I feel like while I do both, I do lessons and when I can I do small groups. I teach skills, skills, but first and foremost my job is the mental health interventionist on campus and to do triage and make referrals when necessary and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:I think both of those things require a team approach. I think that the counselor herself or himself cannot be the SEL specialist and cannot be the mental health specialist. I think that's why support meetings are so important and that's why teachers need to supplement your lessons with lessons in their classroom. Look for those learning opportunities, those teaching opportunities, and use those as opportunities to have class discussions and do those circles restorative circles themselves within the classroom, because it can't fall directly on one person. I think that would be impossible.
Speaker 4:I'm a mix of both, but the struggle in education overall is that everyone else is results-based.
Speaker 1:Every other job in a school from speech special ed ESOL the classroom teacher everybody's looking for results.
Speaker 4:So to just work with kids on general mental health and be a traditional counselor is difficult because you can meet with a child for two weeks.
Speaker 1:And in the next MTSS meeting you're like he's been meeting with Susan and he's still not doing what he's supposed to do, and so you feel very pulled to do skills. You feel very pulled to do things that are going to give results pretty quickly.
Speaker 4:So yeah, I do feel like the school counseling world is more skills-based sometimes than mental health, but I think that just primarily has to do with where we work. So it's hard to find that balance sometimes.
Speaker 1:I think that's a great point. I think the results-based environments on campuses definitely influence our work. We've talked a lot in here about is data going the wrong direction with making school counselors feel like they have to prove their worth on a campus in order to stay there, and is that really a fair question when we're dealing with relationships and mental health and emotions and family backgrounds that we don't have a lot of power to change? It'd be great if we had our magic wands in our pockets and we could just show up and wave them and get evaluated on that, but that's not how people work, and so would it be better to really take a little bit of the focus away from the data driven work in school counseling and instead focus it on recognizing the expertise of school counselors and what they bring to the table.
Speaker 1:I'm seeing that as one of the biggest barriers to school counseling and especially meeting the ASCA guidelines is that there are so many principals out there that just don't understand the job I know I try talking to my principal about I want to become national board certified and ramp, and she's what is that, what? What is that? So you're constantly having to explain things to them and advocate for your job and it gets to be exhausting sometimes. All right, y'all, we we've gotten into a lot of weeds, a lot of mud about our work, but I know that deep down, you love what you do because you're here. You're here with me geeking out about school counseling on your own time, because that's what we do around here. And I'm interested to know, as we look toward wrapping up this podcast episode, what is the number one thing that has been the most helpful to you in your school counseling journey so far. What is the belief, the rationale, the resource, what is something that has been most beneficial to you along your journey?
Speaker 3:Supportive admin is like no other.
Speaker 4:My second that broke my administration that I have right now has been the best experience. I've ever had and entrusting me to do my job and to know what I'm doing, and it has made the biggest difference in me feeling like I've been a successful counselor.
Speaker 1:I think supportive admin is extremely important, but I also think when teachers come to you and tell you that students are using the strategies you've taught them or showing improvement, I think that is really helpful because it gives me the motivation to come back to keep going. So positive feedback. I love that we don't get enough of that too. Because I'm not a school counselor, all I can say right now is this this is my support. It actually has already built in me the confidence that I can do the job once.
Speaker 6:I get in there and do the job.
Speaker 1:It is intimidating, feel a little bit, and it's scary to know that there's a possibility that you won't have this support from your admin. But just having this, just thinking about this and having this if I do get a job as a school counselor is such a comfort. I can go into this job now knowing how to better position myself to get that support, as I would know better how to build those relationships than an advocate for my role and get there. I love that. Thank you, serena.
Speaker 1:I would say building relationships, not just with people that are like-minded that you can go to for support, but also people who don't understand our role, also people who are struggling to really allow us into their classrooms, for example, or allow us to do the interventions that we need to do, because it gives us a different point of view. It helps us really look in to see what we need to do, how do we do it, how do we approach them, and it may feel like sometimes it's just taking too long. This person just doesn't get it. They don't, they're never going to let me into their classroom. It might take a little bit of a toll on your own mental health, but really just building those professional relationships, really showing that respect and really helping them understand your value. It really goes a long way. Eventually they start to be kinder, they start to allow you in and it really does help you get your work done and reach more students.
Speaker 6:I love that. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1:All right, all so. We wrap this up, I'm going to ask one self-serving question, and that is, as you look into the next school year, as you look behind you in the school year that we are completing, out of all of the things that we have going on in our School for School Counselors world, which again blows my mind. I don't know how many of you were with us. I think a few of you have been with us since the beginning, when we were just a weekly check in on a Facebook live and we were trying to help people figure out how to reach kids during COVID, everybody was telling us we needed to be counseling kids online and nobody knew how to do that and nobody was really telling anybody how to do that. It was a lot like the ASCA standards, like you need to make this happen. How do we do it? We really don't know, figure it out, that kind of thing. And so we got together and we crowdsourced this guide and we came up with the tactical application of how do you do school counseling online during COVID and we published this little book and then it went then into hey, we want to keep getting together like this. This was really fun. We like collaborating together, and it just kept growing and growing very organically into what we have now.
Speaker 1:So now we have our School for School Counselors Facebook group. We have our podcast, which still blows my mind. We have our School for School Counselors Mastermind, and inside the Mastermind we have monthly masterclasses. We have weekly support and consultation chats. We're building an amazing community in there. We have data discussions, cohorts in there where we're talking about data. We have special events, like today. We have a special event coming up tomorrow, lots and lots of stuff going on, and then we're putting out content for everybody. We're putting out our free planners, we're putting out our must-haves, guides and those kinds of things.
Speaker 1:So, with all of that, considering all the things that you've seen come out from our direction, what is your favorite thing? What's a favorite thing that you've gotten or been a part of so far? The consultations that they've been really helpful for me. Reading stuff for me is a little different than talking about it with people, so it's a lot better. But I like all your resources too, and the job has been great, so great. But I like all your resources. I've been through quite a bit of them. You brought up even a few that I forgot to mention Get the job Mastermind Library. There's so much going on y'all, I don't even know how we keep all this going. It's really honestly when Selena talking and you list and everything.
Speaker 1:It's hard to pick. It's hard to pick because I fully believe to get the job.
Speaker 4:Got me the job I have now that I'm loving. I love the resources, love talking with everybody and hearing people on the consultation and chat. And then the podcast get me through my workout a lot, but the podcasts have been awesome in in just building knowledge and giving ideas and different things like that. So, they all serve great purposes. Oh, and I love the planner. I really love so it's all been great.
Speaker 1:I like that's what she said about the podcast getting her through her workout, because I find myself listening to a lot of podcasts and I listen to yours and it's almost like a self-care thing for me because I get a lot out of them, but I'm also exercising too, and so it's just like a whole thing and even like on my walks, I'll listen to a lot of stuff and just get a lot of great information. Maybe we need a new tagline school for school counselors podcast. We make working to a lot of stuff and just get a lot of great information. Maybe we need a new tagline School for School Counselors podcast. We make working out suck less, right. I think it's fascinating. Put that for real.
Speaker 1:I don't want you to forget about your virtual conference that you do at the beginning of every school year. That's what brought me to this group. I saw that advertised on Facebook and the fact that it's free, and then it brought me to this group and, as I've mentioned before and many of my reviews and stuff like this is the most useful and educational and if you're looking to build your skills and your knowledge and being better respected on your campus, then this is the group for you, because when you know what you're talking about, it helps you to be more like called on Thousand percent. And we talk all the time in here about building fluency. Yes, we have the right words at the tip of our tongue right when we need them and how powerful that can be when we feel like we're getting called on the carpet or people are looking for insights. When you're able to provide them right, then at that moment, man, that's a game changer for so many people. But you cannot build that fluency if you're not actively trying to build it. It's like handing a kid a book and they haven't read in months. They're not going to be able to be a fluent reader. You have to work on that. You have to develop those skills.
Speaker 1:Same here I'm seeing some hearts go up on my screen as I'm saying that, and that's what we're working toward. I'm so glad you remember that because I had totally forgotten about best year ever Y'all. I don't know what's going on, I can't even keep it all in my head and we're doing that again this year, so I'm super excited about it. I've been planning it for months. It's going to be a little bit different. It's going to be the same but a little bit different, right, because we don't want to do the same thing year after year, and I'm hopeful that everybody's really going to love it. So thank you for bringing that up. I'd forgotten about that.
Speaker 1:One of my favorite things is the School for School Counselors podcast. I love to listen to it on my way to work, on my way from work, on my way here there. It's not 50 hours long, it's to the point, it's clear, and there's always some kind of reflection that I do at the end or while I'm listening to it. That's really helpful for me, my day-to-day work. So that's one of my favorite things is the podcast.
Speaker 6:I just want to add that it's a big thank you, because the mastermind their chats really got me through that first year, and that year was so hard.
Speaker 1:And then my second year, I had two school sites. I needed a lot of support or just an opportunity to vent to people who understood and you will. We know what we're going through, so thank you, and you will. We know what we're going through, so thank you. I remember that two school sites thing. That was tough.
Speaker 1:All right, as we're wrapping up, let me ask you this it's a variation of a question I ask at the end of most of my podcast episodes which is this Do you have one piece of advice or wisdom that you could give to other school counselors that are listening right now, that perhaps aren't in the best headspace, who are questioning whether they're in the right line of work, or maybe are just feeling frustrated and overwhelmed with the tasks at large, because this is not an easy job and just like a quick one or two sentence synopsis, can you give your best piece of direction or advice to school counselors who are listening right now? I would recommend that they definitely consider looking into your mastermind program and I would also say try to get really good at the student-focused counseling and, as far as like data goes, not as scary as you think it is.
Speaker 1:But if you become a mastermind person you will learn that big time.
Speaker 4:I would just say, when the hard gets to you and the hard topic and the trauma and things like that get to you. Just remember that the hard serves purpose.
Speaker 1:And most of the time it takes going through hard stuff with kids and them going through hard stuff and all of us feeling uncomfortable and all of that for them to get to the good.
Speaker 4:So we got to go through the heart and it's okay, and embrace that it's all right.
Speaker 1:I would say also just remember that you're also a human being. We can be very critical of ourselves and we tend to give other people grace and not enough grace to ourselves. And just remember that you're a human being. You're allowed to make mistakes. Just remember that you're a human being. You're allowed to make mistakes. You're allowed to feel feelings as well, like others are. And when you are in a difficult situation, just remembering that you're okay. You're going to be okay if you can get through it. Finding that either support group, support person whether it's somebody in the field or maybe even somebody that's not in the field, right, but somebody that's very supportive and can just be there to listen to you and remind you that you're still doing a great job, even when things aren't necessarily going the way you want them to go. You got a lot of hand claps and heart emojis as you were talking. That support group is huge. Find those people who will support you or give you an opportunity to talk things out when you don't know what to do.
Speaker 5:I made friends with some of my school counselors here in my district and that has become a huge help, especially when I'm like I have no idea how to move forward with this student. So just find your support, I think for me, what I would say is stay curious and open minded. No-transcript is just the more curious I am, the more I'm able to support the people that I work with.
Speaker 1:I think it's important that you don't get sucked into the drama and things like that your school can bring, because you have to remember that you have to keep your biases aside and you don't want teachers influencing you when you're speaking with children and let it affect how you work with that child. So we've got some great advice coming from our school counselors and I am so thankful and so grateful to my Mastermind members for joining me. We recorded this on a Saturday morning, so on our weekend, on our family time and our catching up time. Here these guys are not only geeking out on school counseling with me, but helping me with our 100th podcast episode. As we celebrate the 100th episode.
Speaker 1:We've got so much more coming your way this year in School for School Counselors, so many plans, so many frameworks coming your way. It's going to blow your mind, I promise. We've been deep in development for a year and a half now for some of these things and I can't wait to show you All we have coming your way is taking everything in me not to spill the beans right now. As a matter of fact, our masterminders are having a super reveal party for a new component of their program tomorrow, because we're always looking to bring amazing new things your way. But we're going to wrap this podcast episode up because I'm sure we have gone extremely long with this one, but I think it was so fascinating and such a good conversation, I just could not bear to stop it. So I will see you guys in Mastermind, I'll see you tomorrow, I'll see you soon and thank you so much for being here to help me with this podcast episode.
Speaker 1:Bye, bye, thank you, bye Bye. Can you see why I love them? Yes, they are some of the most amazing school counselors on the planet. My mastermind folks are truly tremendous and I'm so glad that you got the chance to listen to a little bit of the way that they speak together, the way they talk and respect others' opinions but don't always have to agree on things. And again, I'm just so thankful to them for joining me on this 100th episode milestone of the podcast.
Speaker 1:If you're interested in joining these kinds of conversations, remember that the door to the School for School Counselors podcast is always open. You can find out all you need to know at schoolforschoolcounselorscom slash mastermind and once you get in there, you're going to find out about all the amazing new things we've implemented in just the past couple of weeks. We would love to welcome you into our group and we'll have a chair for you whenever you're ready. All right, I'll be back soon with another episode of the School for School Counselors podcast and in the meantime, I hope you have the best week and the best start to your summer. Take care.