School for School Counselors Podcast

Beyond the Behavior Bouncer

• School for School Counselors • Episode 143

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In the previous episode, we talked about what happens when a behavior referral isn’t really about the student- and how counselors can shift out of the “removal service” role and into real consultation.

But what if that doesn’t feel realistic?

This bonus episode tackles the pushback:

  • What if your admin expects you to remove students, no questions asked?
  • What if your teachers are too burned out to reflect?
  • What if you barely have time to breathe, let alone consult?

We’re walking through the most common objections counselors have and how to shift your role anyway, one step at a time.

If last week’s episode made you think, “That sounds great, but it won't work on my campus,” this one’s for you.


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Speaker 1:

If you listened to the last episode episode 142, we took kind of a hard look at behavior referrals and we asked one really big and uncomfortable question what if the behavior referral really isn't about the student at all? We talked about adult dysregulation, teacher burnout and how school counselors often get pulled into reactive roles that don't really fix the root of the issue. We walked through the five-minute behavior consult, which is a short, strategic conversation to help support your school staff without becoming the on-call behavior fixer, and we covered how to identify when the issue maybe isn't so much about the student as it is about the adult, and how to lead from that place with curiosity and not judgment. But I knew when I had published on that episode you were going to have some big questions, because real school campuses are messy and the relationships on those campuses are often very delicate and the last thing that we need is something that sounds good in theory but really doesn't work in the real world. So today I want to follow up that episode and I want to answer your questions. I want to talk about the objections that you might have to this style of behavior intervention and help you figure out how to make it work, even when the system around you is not ideal.

Speaker 1:

Welcome back to the School for School Counselors podcast, my friend. I'm Steph Johnson, a full-time school counselor, just like you, on a mission to make school counseling more sustainable and more enjoyable. All right, we're going to jump right into it. Let's hit objection number one. When we talk about providing consultation for behavior instead of automatically removing the student, many people will come back with this.

Speaker 1:

Removing the student gives the teacher a break, and that is a good thing. It's probably what your administrators would say, right, and it can be. It can be a good thing to give a teacher a break In the moment. It is absolutely a good idea to give the teacher a moment to re-regulate if they need to. That is real and that time matters, and we have all had days where we've had to just step out of a situation and take a breath, right, so it makes sense that our staff might need that too. But here's what else is real. If that's happening regularly and removing a student is the only strategy that's being used, it becomes a very unhealthy cycle because the teacher never learns to regulate themselves in the moment, the student never builds resilience in that less than perfect environment and you become the on-call crisis team, even when really it's not a crisis. Short-term behavior relief cannot be the only plan. So, yes, you can help when it's needed, but you do always need to follow up Y'all, even a 30-second check-in based on that solution-focused framework that I provided in the last episode of what's happening. When does it happen? What's been tried already, what worked, even just a little bit, and what's one small thing we can try next that can make a difference. Ask the teacher how they're doing, what do they want to try next? Because when you do that, you're guiding the teacher toward their own best solution and you're acting as a leader.

Speaker 1:

Objection number two comes from our sweet, empathetic hearts. I don't want to blame teachers and I don't want to damage my relationships with them. Same, my friend. Same. None of us want to do that, because our jobs depend on good relationships with staff. But let's be honest, that cannot also mean that we stay silent when we see patterns that aren't working. So it's not about pointing fingers. It's about asking better questions. What's been going well, even just a little bit? What happens right before that behavior shows up? What happens right before that behavior shows up? Because when you frame your questions that way, when it sounds like this is a shared process and not a performance review, most teachers are not going to get defensive. They're going to feel very supported, fact I would say. Just reflecting on my time as a classroom teacher, I would bet that many teachers feel isolated when they're struggling with student behavior and that you asking questions like this might be the first time someone on that campus has treated them like a partner rather than a problem.

Speaker 1:

Objection number three I don't have time to consult. That's fair. Your day is already packed. You've got meetings and check-ins and students walking in and out unannounced. I get it. My day is the same way. But here's what I've learned in almost 30 years in public education You're already spending time on behavior. It's just reactive. You're spending time walking them across campus, talking with them, writing referral notes, following up with your administrators, teaching coping skills. You're trying to identify a counseling intervention or a small group. It's all time you're trying to identify a counseling intervention or a small group. It's all time you're already using. So this consult isn't an extra thing. It's just a redirection of your time. You could ask solution-focused questions in the hallway, you could ask them at dismissal or even in a quick email. You could even make yourself an email template if you need to, because this is not about being fancy, it's about shifting energy and helping your staff build skills instead of just trying to unload the problems all on your shoulders. And over time, as you invest in this intentionality, your time gets protected, because your teachers begin feeling more confident and they become more competent with problem behaviors in their classrooms and the referrals start to slow down down.

Speaker 1:

Objection number four and a very real and very unfortunate truth my admin expects me to remove students, and it is a non-negotiable. That's real too. I have worked on those campuses and I am not going to pretend that listening to this episode or trying one brief consult with the teacher is going to change all that overnight. But you do have control to instigate some change, and most of that, in my opinion, is related to how you show up in the moment. Instead of just removing a student and calling it a day sometimes the whole day right, consider adding one small action. Ask the teacher what happened right before this started. Acknowledge their frustration. Man, I can tell this has been a tough week for you. Ask if anything helped at all before you arrived. Ask if anything helped at all before you arrived. These questions are light, they're non-threatening, but they start to train your staff to reflect instead of just referring.

Speaker 1:

And if you really want a game changer, track the information log. The behavior calls how long they took you, how often were you pulled from something else and is there a pattern by time of day or by teacher? Because that data is going to give you huge leverage and when you have a conversation with your higher-ups, you can come across not as complaining but as documenting. So when you bring that information to your admin, you're not just saying I'm overwhelmed and they're looking at you thinking we all are. What's your point? You can show them the data and explain a better way. I mentioned in the last episode, we do a lot of this in our School for School Counselors Mastermind. So many school counselors come to us saying there is absolutely no way that I can track my use of time data in my day. There is too much going on. I can't stop for a minute. This is absolutely a non-negotiable. It can happen and by the end of the year they're collecting that information like a boss. We have systems, we have hacks in place. I promise you we've got your solution if you give us a chance. But whether you work with us or on your own, make sure you're tracking that information.

Speaker 1:

Objection number five and, to be honest, another unfortunate truth teachers don't want advice from school counselors. I hear this a lot and, to be fair, I get it. I was there myself too. I didn't want to hear from the school counselor what did they know? They weren't in the classroom all day, like me. They didn't have this kid in their face all day or all hour or whatever it is, and I really just kind of dismissed anything that they had to say to me.

Speaker 1:

So I think that myth is right. Teachers don't want unsolicited advice. But I can also tell you what they do want. They want somebody that sees them working their guts out and says, hey, I'm here to help, let's figure this out. That's what that five-minute consult does. It puts the power in the teacher's hands, where you're not telling them what to do, you're just asking them what's already working and helping them find their own best next step. And that's not giving advice, that is empowering your teachers, and most of them are hungry for that type of support, especially when it doesn't come with a side dish of judgment or more paperwork or data for them to collect. So listen y'all, I get it. These objections are valid, they're real and I have had them too.

Speaker 1:

So you are not wrong in thinking that this approach sounds hard, but I think also what you may be doing in the realm of behavior. Intervention is hard. Intervention is hard. If nothing else, I want you to leave this episode with these three mantras running through your head. Number one you don't need a leadership title to lead. Number two you don't need permission to ask better questions. And number three you don't need a perfect system to shift your campus culture. You can start small, you can stay steady, and don't let the fear of things being awkward keep you from doing the kind of work that actually helps people, not just your students, but the adults on your campus too.

Speaker 1:

Because when you invest in this process with intentionality, with fidelity, and you're willing to be in it for the long game, for the marathon of it, you won't just be responding to behavior, however your solution looks right now, but you will start to redefine what behavior support looks like.

Speaker 1:

One consult at a time looks like One consult at a time, one classroom at a time and one student at a time, and if you can stick with it, you are going to completely change the perception of the school counselor's role on your campus and, my friend, that is a very good thing. I hope this episode empowered you and fired you up and got you inspired for the potential for change on your campus. If you are being used as the behavior bouncer on your campus, this is your way out. It's not easy and it's probably not going to be fast, but it will be impactful if you can just lean into it long enough to see the change. I'll be back soon with another episode of the School for School Counselors podcast. In the meantime, I hope you have the best week. Take care.

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Steph Johnson

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