GRADED: Small Group Counseling

Small group counseling gets pushed as the fix for everything. But what if we’re getting it wrong?

In this episode:

• Why “ASCA-aligned” doesn’t mean effective
• The real reason group work is overused
• How to spot a pretty curriculum with zero impact

Plus, a student story that stopped me in my tracks.

If you’ve ever run a group just to prove you’re doing Tier 2… this one’s for you.

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⭐️ Want support with real-world strategies that actually work on your campus? We’re doing that every day in the School for School Counselors Mastermind. Come join us! ⭐️

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Our goal at School for School Counselors is to help school counselors stay on fire, make huge impacts for students, and catalyze change for our roles through grassroots advocacy and collaboration. Listen to get to know more about us and our mission, feel empowered and inspired, and set yourself up for success in the wonderful world of school counseling.

Chapters

• 0:00 Small Group Counseling Gets a B Grade
• 2:10 Frosting vs Food: The Problem with Groups
• 6:15 The Marcus Example: Looking Good vs Working
• 10:07 What Research Actually Says About Groups
• 12:05 The Potential Harm of Default Groups
• 16:53 The GROUP Test: Creating Effective Interventions
• 19:57 Taking Action and Finding Support

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Today I'm going to give small group counseling a B grade. I'm just going to go ahead and let the cat out of the bag and before you turn this episode off thinking that I have just lost my mind or worse I don't understand how overwhelmed you are and I'm shortchanging your groups Let me tell you why that grade might actually be very, very generous. Because most of the small group curricula floating around the internet is frosting, designed as food. It's pretty, it's sweet, it's satisfying in the moment, but they're not actually nourishing the kids. We're trying to help. The kids were trying to help. I know, I know that stings, especially if you've got a folder full of all of your group materials that you paid good money for. But stick with me because by the end of the episode you're going to know exactly how to tell the difference between groups that look good and groups that actually work. Hey Skull Counselor, welcome back In this episode of our graded series. We're talking about one of the most widely recommended interventions in school counseling small groups. It's supposed to help you support more students, build connection and make your program more comprehensive. But does it actually work? Or is it just another feel-good fix that looks better on paper than it plays out in real life. So if you're ready for some straight talk, my friend, some clarity on your work and a little bit of rebellion, you're in the right place. I'm Steph Johnson and this is the School for School Counselors podcast.

Speaker 1: 2:04

I recently started back to work on my campus and I went after work to Target. I needed to buy some toothpaste and I was standing there staring at the shelf and all I wanted was something simple right, just grab some toothpaste and go. But there were all kinds of other things going on there Whitening, charcoal, icy, blast, foam, burst, optic, enamel, shield, whatever. And for a split second I thought you know, I wish they had one called frosting for your face. Wouldn't that be fun? I totally made it up, but I swear if it had been there I would have put it in my little basket without a second thought, because in that moment my brain was so tired of remembering all the things I needed to do at the start of this year. I didn't want anything smart, I wanted a no-brainer and I didn't even care if it was effective. I just wanted to feel like I had a solution in my hand, and that impulse when we want to grab what looks helpful or fun instead of what is, is also shaping how we're running group counseling in schools.

Speaker 1: 3:08

The uncomfortable truth is we're not choosing groups because they're the right intervention. We're choosing them because they feel like we're doing something great, something that looks official or structured or supportive enough to calm down that little voice in the back of your head that says am I doing enough? But here's what nobody talks about. When your visibility starts to matter more than your effectiveness, our students are the ones who bear the risk. Now, if you've been in school counseling longer than five minutes, you've heard it. What small groups are you running? The school counseling field has been whispering in your ear like a seductive salesperson. Behavior issue, group Self-esteem concerns, group Attendance problems. You guessed it. Group it's everywhere in the Ask, a National model, it's hardwired into district improvement plans and it's preached in grad school and social media like it's the gospel. If you're not running small groups, apparently you're not doing tier two. But here's what happens in reality.

Speaker 1: 4:26

When I started at a campus as a new school counselor, I remember a teacher walking up to me and saying so, when are you going to get started with Julio not his real name and I said what do you mean. And she said you know you're supposed to pull him for a counseling group. And I said oh, I didn't know about him. What is the issue? And the teacher looked at me and she said him what is the issue? And the teacher looked at me and she said I don't know, he's just in every counseling group. That's when I realized we've created a system where being helped ultimately ends up labeling kids. Okay, so I'm going to give you a challenge and after I give it to you, I want you to pause this episode and think about it. I'm serious.

Speaker 1: 5:12

Pull up your next group curriculum, whether it's something that you bought online, you got from a colleague or you created yourself, and try to answer these three questions in 60 seconds. First, what specific research supports this approach? I'm not talking about buzzwords like research-based or ASCA aligned. I'm talking about actual studies. Secondly, how do you know if it's working? What changes do you expect to see beyond engagement in the group? What are the benchmarks that are going to tell you that change is actually happening and it's being sustained? Question three what happens if a student doesn't fit the format of this group? Do you have a backup plan instead of just thinking, oh well, you know they'll still get something out of this. Pause for a minute and answer those. Okay, how did it go? If you struggle to answer even one of those questions quickly and confidently, you're not alone and it's not your fault. You're working in a system that sold you frosting when what you really needed was food. So now it's time to bring up the elephant in the room. Teachers pay teachers In our School for School Counselors Mastermind, we talk often about the hundreds and hundreds of dollars that school counselors have spent on that platform and you know how many of those resources my members say, actually helped them move the needle in their school counseling program?

Speaker 1: 6:58

Maybe 10%. They were cute, they were perfectly designed, they were color-coded. They had these cute little icebreaker activities and discussion cards that make you feel like you're organized and prepared. But when you really look at what you're buying, here's what you'll find. First, the packaging promises evidence-based, but when you dig deeper you'll find that just means the creator read a study about something related to that topic. That's not evidence-based, that's borrowed credibility. Secondly, the activities look engaging, but engagement isn't the same as being effective. A coloring page about feelings isn't counseling, it's a coloring page. And third, the language sounds official ASCA aligned, research-based, proven strategies, but anyone can say their resource is aligned with anything. Asca doesn't vet these materials. There's no approval process and no quality control. It's like the nutrition labels that say made with real fruit, when what they really mean is contains 2% apple juice. So here's what that looks like in practice.

Speaker 1: 8:20

Let's imagine a fifth grader. We'll call him Marcus and he gets referred to an anger management group because he's had three classroom outbursts in two weeks. So week one, the group colors anger thermometers. Week two, they practice deep breathing. Week three, they role play different conflict scenarios. Marcus participates, he follows directions and he even seems to kind of like it, but the outbursts in the classroom continue. I know you've seen this before. Here's what maybe we don't know about Marcus in this scenario. Is he really angry or is he hungry? What if his family had recently become food insecure and those anger episodes were happening right before lunch every single time? No amount of breathing exercises is going to fix that problem.

Speaker 1: 9:15

But the group looks good on paper. It's structured, it has clear objectives. It even has a pre and post-survey that showed that Marcus improved his emotional regulation skills. But meanwhile the real issue goes unaddressed. Now, before you think I'm completely anti-group.

Speaker 1: 9:36

Let me tell you what the actual research says. Researchers have looked at hundreds of school counseling groups over the past 20 years and some of them work incredibly well, but here's the pattern they found the groups that actually helped students had certain things in common, and none of them were related to cute graphics. It was fidelity, structure and the groups were matched to what students actually needed, not what looked good in a description. Studies like Brigham and Webb's Student Success Skills program showed real academic gains, but it was only when the counselors followed the protocol exactly. When they modified it or they mixed it with other activities, the benefits disappeared. Berger's Bringing Out the Brilliance program worked for underachieving high schoolers, but it required 45-minute sessions, trained facilitators and careful screening of participants. To go even further, a 2019 meta-analysis found that school-based group interventions showed statistically significant gains in behavior and academics, but only when delivered with high fidelity and accurate student matching. Y'all the research is clear when groups are done right, they can be powerful, but done right looks nothing like what most school counselors are actually doing. Most school counselors are actually doing.

Speaker 1: 11:19

So let's go back to that grade that I told you about, because if we were grading just the idea of small groups as in the theory and the potential of them. That's an easy. A Peer connection reduces isolation, skills. Practice feels safer when there's other kids around and some students genuinely learn better in group settings as compared to one-on-one. But in practice, in real schools with real constraints and real pressures, most school-based small groups land at a C-plus at best. Here's what brings the grade down we're running groups because we feel like we should, not because they're the right fit for kids.

Speaker 1: 12:07

Materials are being designed for engagement and not effectiveness. There's no time to screen or follow up properly. Confidentiality becomes impossible when kids see each other all day. That's a nuance that's not present in clinical small groups and we're treating complex student needs like they can be solved with games and coloring activities. On the bright side, there were some things that kept these small groups from failing altogether. When they're done thoughtfully, groups can create genuine peer connection. There are some evidence-based programs that do exist and do work. Unfortunately, they also cost something. Small groups can be an efficient way to teach specific skills and for the right students at the right time, groups can be genuinely helpful. So when we put that all together, I'm giving small groups a grade of B but honestly, I'm going to tell you I feel like that grade is still very generous. Beyond the grade. Here's what keeps me up at night, truly.

Speaker 1: 13:21

When we start to default to groups as our go-to intervention in school counseling, we're not just wasting time, my friend, we're potentially doing harm. Stigma follows students when everyone knows who's in the behavior group or the anxiety group, even if you give it a cute name, they're going to catch on. That label sticks. How about the teachers that lean into the doorway of the classroom and say, bobby, it's time for your counseling group? Those labels stick. We are also missing the real problems. The angry kid might be hungry, the anxious student might need trauma support and that withdrawn teenager might be neurodivergent and need sensory accommodations, not social skills. We're also reinforcing the idea that students are broken. When every solution is about fixing something inside that child, we not only disempower them, but we miss systemic issues, because a lot of times the problem isn't the kid, it's the classroom or the curriculum or the culture of the school.

Speaker 1: 14:42

The students that we are trying to help deserve better than pretty worksheets and borrowed credibility. They deserve strategy, they deserve thoughtfulness and they deserve interventions that are actually grounded in real evidence, not aesthetics. So what would a good group look like? What's the gold standard? We'd be running a group where every group decision began with data, where we weren't starting with student referrals or teacher complaints but actual behavior patterns and academic indicators. Then we'd screen every potential participant with a brief individual conversation. We want to make sure that that group matches their needs. Then we would use evidence-based curricula, not the pretty ones, the ones that have been tested with real students and have shown real results. We would measure outcomes, not just satisfaction. Did attendance improve? Did office referrals decrease? Can students actually demonstrate the skills they learned more than a week or two past the end of the group? And then we would have to be unafraid to end a group early if it's not working, because sometimes you have to stop and regroup and refer students to individual counseling when you notice that the group topic is not really the issue at hand.

Speaker 1: 16:13

Y'all this is clinical level decision making, not program performance. And I know that hits some of you funny, because you say, steph, we're not supposed to be therapists, we're not supposed to be talking about being clinical, but when we are talking about students' emotional health, mental health and self-concept within these groups that we are running in the environment where they spend the majority of their waking hours. We need to have a clinical eye toward what we are doing. In my opinion, if we don't, we are being very reckless. So where do we go from here? You're probably worried. I'm going to tell you throw out all of your group materials, stop doing groups altogether. I'm not going to say that, but I am going to encourage you to get more strategic about what you're doing.

Speaker 1: 17:06

Use the group test. Before you start any group, ask yourself these questions, and they go along with the acronym of GROUP Goals, research, outcomes, understanding and Purpose. Here are the questions what specific measurable goals are we targeting? What research evidence supports this approach? How will we know we got the outcome we wanted? Do I truly understand what's driving these student behaviors and what's the purpose of this group? Is this the best format for these particular kids? So that's one. Use that group test.

Speaker 1: 17:54

Secondly, do an evidence audit. Look at your current group materials and, for each one, find the actual research behind it, not the marketing copy, not the general CBT label on the front, but the peer-reviewed studies. If you can't find any for the approaches within that group. It doesn't automatically make it bad, but it does mean that you're experimenting and you're not implementing evidence-based practice. Then, third, do a student voice check.

Speaker 1: 18:30

Ask your students what did you get out of this group? What would you change? Did it help with the thing that you thought you came here for change? Did it help with the thing that you thought you came here for? Sometimes the answers to these things will surprise you and they will definitely help inform your next small group decisions. So remember that Target toothpaste aisle All those shiny options promising to solve all of my problems. When we think about that, we realize that the prettiest package isn't always the most effective product. Sometimes the best solution is the boring one, the one that's been tested and refined and proven to actually work, even if it doesn't have holographic packaging. Your students deserve the toothpaste that actually prevents cavities, not the one that just tastes like frosting, and you deserve to feel confident that what you're offering them has real substance behind the attractive exterior. So if this episode made you want to go audit every group material in your office, please start small, start with an easy win.

Speaker 1: 19:41

I'm going to put those questions from the group test into a download. Look below at the show description and I'll have a link there for you. You can download it and, literally in two minutes, evaluate what you're running. Or, if you want support to completely transform your approach to groups and, honestly, the way you do all your interventions, the mastermind group is ready. This is where school counselors come when they're tired of the pretty solutions and they're ready for the more powerful ones. We have talked up, down and around about small groups in the last year. We have some pretty unique solutions to your group problems and we would love to share them with you in real time and in the context of your campus. You can find out more details about the Mastermind at schoolforschoolcounselorscom. Slash mastermind.

Speaker 1: 20:31

And hey, before I go, I just want to tell you I hope you're not too mad at me right now I know that I just challenged something that is probably a cornerstone of your school counseling program, but if this episode stirred something up inside of you, that is not a bad thing, because it means that you're paying attention, it means that you're working to be discerning and it means that you care more about helping students than about looking busy or cute or cool, and that's exactly the kind of school counselor your students need. I'll be back next week with another episode of our graded series here on the School for School Counselors podcast, but until then, just remember you're not responsible for being perfect, but you are responsible for being thoughtful. And if this episode made you think differently about your work, leave us a quick rating or review in your podcast player. It helps other school counselors find their way here too, so we can start generating some really powerful conversations. I'll be back soon with that next episode and in the meantime, I hope you have the best week. Take care.